Subrace Suggestions

by **Everlasting Empathy** Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:32 pm

The purpose of this thread is allow you to make suggestions about the subrace system, of subraces themselves, or even suggest new subraces.

In the case of suggesting a new subrace, Please copy the format below exactly as it is and fill in the blanks.

Code:: [color=#ff0000][b]This is a subrace suggestion. Please treat it only as a suggestion.[/b][/color] [b]Subrace Name:[/b] ________ [b]Base Race:[/b] ________ [b]Allowed Genders:[/b] ________ [b]ECL (Upon approval only):[/b] ________ [b]Physical Traits:[/b] ________ [b]Common Personality Traits:[/b] ________ [b]Specific Anatomy:[/b] ________ [b]Historical Information:[/b] ________ [b]Cultural Information:[/b] ________ [b]Notable People(optional):[/b] ________ [b]Attribute bonuses(optional):[/b] ________ [b]Skill Rank bonuses(optional):[/b] ________ [b]Damage Resistances(optional):[/b] ________ [b]Special properties(optional):[/b] ________ [b]Special abilities(optional):[/b] ________ [b]Other (optional):[/b] ________

To narrow down what each of these means:

Subrace Name: The name of your subrace.
Base Race: The base race that the subrace is drawn from. Human, elf, half-elf, etcetera.
Allowed Genders: What genders are allowed for this race?
ECL: The ECL (Effective Character Level) for the subrace. This will scale depending on how powerful the subrace is. If you don't know what ECL means, go here. You won't need to fill this in, but you're free to suggest an ECL for the subrace.

Physical Traits: What traits do members of this race typically have? Describe what they might look like.
Common Personality Traits: What personality traits do members of this race typically exhibit? Are they stronger, more brutish than others? Or do they tend to be more sophisticated and intelligent?
Specific Anatomy: Describe their anatomy. How the bodies of this particular race operates, or anything that might be different (or similar) than other races.
Historical Information: What is the history of this race like? Give a brief account. If the race is approved, we can go into deeper detail.
Cultural Information: Where does this race originate from? What is the culture of this race like? The typical upbringing of a member of this race? Give a brief explanation.
Notable People(optional): Important figures of this race.

Attribute bonuses(optional): What statistical advantages are represented by this race? Your bonuses should not exceed +6. For every +2 to any stat at all, you add +1 overall ECL. Note that NEGATIVE attribute bonuses (may) reduce the ECL of this race.
Skill Rank bonuses(optional): What skills does this race normally use? The bonuses should not exceed +10. Depending on the skill and the bonus, this will modify the ECL.
Damage Resistances(optional): What damage types is this race more resistant to? Fire? Cold? Acid? All of the above? Depending on the bonuses, this will modify the ECL.
Special properties(optional): What other properties do they have? Are they less likely to catch certain diseases? Are they more vulnerable to certain diseases? Do items and objects throughout the world react differently around them, or while in their possession? Maybe they can jump higher, or run faster. Describe it.
Special abilities(optional): What abilities is this race able to employ? Are they naturally able to throw fireballs from their palms, or spit acid? Do they have the ability to turn invisible on a whim?

Other (optional): Any other information you feel like putting down?

Note that every subrace you suggest is not necessarily going to go in the game. We can love your concept all we want, but if it changes the setting to a degree we aren't willing to go towards, it will be denied. Don't be hurt.

by **Everlasting Empathy** Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:56 am

List of our current subraces.

BASIC SUBRACES
No approval required for these.

Avalonian (Human): +2 INT
Fjellborn (Human): +2 STR, Cold Resistance
Wastelander (Human): +2 Constitution, Heat Resistance, Dark Sensitivity
Uta (Human): +2 Wisdom, +4 Hide
Wilderbourn (Human): +2 Charisma
Kharthan (Human): +2 Dex, +4 Intimidate

Wasteland Elf (Elf): +4 Con, Heat Resistance, Dark Sensitivity
Dark Elf (Elf): +2 Int, +4 Appraise
Wood Elf (Elf): [+2 ECL] +2 STR, +2 Con, -4 Charisma, +4 Hide, +4 Move Silently

Wasteland Dwarf (Dwarf): +2 Wisdom, +4 Spot, Heat Resistance
Grey Dwarf (Dwarf): (nothing yet)

Tinker Gnome (Gnome): (nothing yet)
Grey Gnome (Gnome): (nothing yet)
Forest Gnome (Gnome): (nothing yet)

Shire Halfling (Gnome): (nothing yet)
Savage Halfling (Gnome): (nothing yet)
Badlands Halfling (Gnome): (nothing yet)

RARE SUBRACES
These will require more consideration and regulation.

Dragonborn (Human): (nothing yet)

High Elf (Elf): [+3 ECL] +2 Int, +4 Charisma, -2 Constitution, -2 Strength, Spells 1-6 Auto-Stilled
Cursed Elf (Elf): [+3 ECL] +4 Charisma, +2 Intelligence, -4 Wisdom, 5/- resistance to Acid, Fire, Electrical

Half-Nymph (Half-Elf): [+4 ECL] +4 Charisma, -2 Con, -2 Strength, -2 Wisdom, Greater Spell Focus in Enchantment
Half-Dryad (Half-Elf): [+4 ECL] +4 Wisdom, -2 Con, -2 Strength
Dragonblood (Half-Elf): (nothing yet)

PLANETOUCHED SUBRACES
Some approval necessary.

Archon (All Medium): [+2 ECL] +2 Charisma, +2 Wisdom, 5/- resistance to Fire and Electrical
Fiendspawn (All Medium): [+2 ECL] +2 Int, +2 Dex, -2 Charisma, 5/- resistance to Acid and Fire

Fire Genasi (All Medium): [+2 ECL] +2 Int, +2 Charisma, -2 Wisdom, 10/- resistance to Fire, Heat Resistance
Air Genasi (All Medium): [+2 ECL] +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con, 10/- resistance to Electrical, Cold Resistance
Earth Genasi (All Medium): [+2 ECL] +2 Con, +2 Str, -4 Dexterity, 10/- resistance to Acid, Heat Resistance
Water Genasi (All Medium): [+2 ECL] +2 Con, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma, 10/- resistance to Cold, Cold Resistance

UNDEAD SUBRACES
Extremely rare. Approval, and regulation required.

Basic undead properties are as follows: Immunity to Death Magic, Paralysis, Sneak Attack, Disease, Poison, Ability Drain, 15/- resistance to Cold. In addition to these, the below subraces gain...
Undead, Vampire (All Medium): [+5 ECL] +4 Charisma, +4 Intelligence, 25% Vulnerability to Fire, Light Sensitivity, Sun Vulnerability
Undead, Lich (All Medium): [+5 ECL] Critical Hit Immunity, -4 Str, -4 Dex, -4 Con, +4 Intelligence
Undead, Cursed (All Medium):-2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma, -2 Constitution, Deathless attribute.
Undead, Wraith (All Medium): [+5 ECL] Critical Hit Immunity, -4 Wisdom, +4 Dexterity, Scaling Concealment every 5 levels (30% at level 15), Sun Vulnerability, Soul Eater attribute.

SPECIAL SUBRACES
Extremely rare. Approval, and regulation required.

Shade (All Medium): [+4 ECL] +4 Dexterity, -4 Charisma, -4 Wisdom, -2 Constitution +8 Hide, +8 Move Silently, Light Sensitivity, Hide In Plain Sight
Kobold (Halfling): Undecided
Goblin (Halfling): Undecided
Lizardfolk (Half-Orc): Undecided
Yuan-Ti (Human): Undecided
Orc (Half-Orc): Undecided
Deep Orc (Half-Orc): Undecided
Bugbear (Half-Orc): Undecided
Hobgoblin (Half-Orc): Undecided
Gnoll (Half-Orc): Undecided
Satyr (Human): Undecided
Centaur (Human): Undecided

by Aliris Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:21 pm

Suggest using dragonblood for both human and half elf variants rather than dragonborn, to avoid skyrim references.

Half-elf and Half-orc variants (like wasteland half-elf, drow half-elf etc).

Half-nymph and half-dryad seem weak for 4 ecl. Suggest adding powers and immunities, or lowering to 1 or 2.

Ecls in general seem high - planetouched get +2 to two stats and -2 to another plus minor resists, for Ecl2, compared to human variants with +2 to a stat at no penalty. Suggest lowering the ecls by 1. People will likely still overwhelmingly choose default races, but you won't be so completely screwed if you're an ecl.

by Gork Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:22 pm

To be honest I don't really know what to think about it... I mean, cool it's there, and also cool that it's not from Forgotten Realms DnD handbook, but at the same time the more I look at the more unbalanced it gets.

So my first question would be, does it mean that character with ECL +5 will be only able to level up to lvl 15 tops and will be lvl blocked from lvl 10? If not then only minor inconvenience for those playing those characters will be a longer time they would need to spend to make it up to lvl 20, whats more important, cause of level 20 being max lvl in game, some of those traits are so, so, much more worth it.

I'll wait with whatever else I have to say - as there maybe no point if they can't lvl up, up to lvl 20.

by **Everlasting Empathy** Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:44 pm

The soft cap and hard cap reduces for them. A char with +5 ECL is softcapped at level 10, meaning they no longer gain XP from regular monsters starting that level. They are hardcapped at level 15, meaning they'll never be able to go past that level.

ECL makes you count as a higher level, which also reduces the amount of XP you normally get. While a normal level 3 with no ECL might get 30 XP from a creature, you, who are also level 3 (but with +2 ECL) might only get 19, because you count as a higher level.

by Aliris Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:11 pm

Using the genie-kin names as a base gives us something like: djinnian, maridian, efreetian, daoian. Using the languages of the elements would give us auranian, aquanian, ignanian, and terranian.

by Aliris Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:12 pm

For the elemental subraces, that is.

by **Raeburn Mark** Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:23 am

The ECL system sounds absolutely devastating, especially considering that, at present, Thessir seems to [suffer] from Sinfar's "you don't gain experience from killing that monster because it was too high in level to really be considered a learning experience" mechanic. Personally, I would make it so that, like D&D races, there isn't a single subrace that doesn't receive some modification, even if it comes down to the +1/-1 skill fodder.

How far do we want to go with this? I don't necessarily want to fill the server with half fey half drow red dragon disciple liches, or cyberpunk liquid metal golems, but, I can certainly think of a few ideas for non-standard subraces. (Should we really still be calling them "sub"races at that point?)

Support ideas: (PC playable for RP)
Persistant / Sentient blades (mage companions?)
Familiar / Golems (mage companions?)
Animals / Beasts (druid companions)

I guess a lot of these could fall more under the realm of "path" as well, considering the potential attributes assigned to them, and how dramatically they effect game play. Actually, let me go post more somewhere else. *wink*

by **Everlasting Empathy** Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:38 am

Does it? The XP system is ddifferent. You should be getting it no matter what.

by TBQ Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:37 pm

As I look at this, ECL seems to be unbalanced on several of these.

The Genasi seem more like +1ecl races, given they also get a -2stat. (Except for Archon, which seems appropriate.)

Half dryad and half nymph also seem overwhelmingly, underwhelming for a +4ecl (which, with a hard cap of 16 and soft cap of 11, is quite significant). They get +4 in a stat, but all the -2s should negate that at least down to +2 maybe a +3. (In 1 case, you get 2 feats, and then -6 (total) stats, +4stats. The other is +4 for -4 and no feats, and +4ecl.) And yes, I do understand that the +4 is going to be quite usefulfor some builds, if the character is approved, but the ECL seems disproportionately steep.

by **Everlasting Empathy** Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:39 am

Unpinned because none of these are set in stone.

by FritzTCoyote Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:36 pm

Aliris wrote:8<snip>8
Ecls in general seem high - planetouched get +2 to two stats and -2 to another plus minor resists, for Ecl2, compared to human variants with +2 to a stat at no penalty. Suggest lowering the ecls by 1. People will likely still overwhelmingly choose default races, but you won't be so completely screwed if you're an ecl.

I suggest that ECLs be kept high enough to discourage numberchasers using subraces just to make the baddest bad-asses.

If someone wants to really RP a subrace, any numerical disadvantage just adds to the complexity of playing, and makes it a more challenging experience.

by HighTide Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:16 pm

At that point you're just punishing players for desiring a specific race =/ I certainly hope the goal isn't to punish players, but rather keep a good mind for balance and fairness to go along with that complexity. 4 levels of ECL means at least one feat, four skill points, an ability point, and whatever class features would have been available gone-not to mention if they were to play sorc they would cap at a single 8th tier spell with 4 levels of effectiveness lost.
ECL is a REALLY big deal. I've played ECL characters before and, in the longrun, you start wondering if it was worth the character concept for that damn racial level-cap.
Also, for reference/ideas, this is a D&D3.5 Playable Monsters list. The races are on the right-hand sidebar.

by **Everlasting Empathy** Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:18 pm

We want them to be rare. We also want them to be powerful. While not actually listed here, you will see that these subraces can be stupendously powerful. When it's all done, ECL will accelerate things such as spell gain and everything else. Imagine starting at level 5 instead of level 3. Weaker races might actually suffer the most.

But playing a subrace has more bonuses beyond just stats ... there's also other benefits too. High Elves can start in the High Elf city and acquire unique gear that is only available to High Elves. Just as an example. Some subraces can go into areas or regions that others can't, too. Some subraces are hostile to certain targets, others are friendly to certain enemies/mobs. The benefits are very wide and varied, just as much as the penalties.

by **Cortex** Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:20 pm

All races with positive traits also should have drawbacks. IE all human subraces have bonuses but no ECL or negative stats, it's a win-win scenario. Meanwhile, wood elf not only has ECL, but also -4 CHA.

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